Thank you so much for your completely fascinating insights. I made a stop motion film inspired by the Green Knight and it is all about the soil and I wish I had read your work so I could articulate why! I’ve just found you and so looking forward to more.
this is completely amazing and i would LOVE to see the film if it’s available anywhere I can? my phd is going to have a whole chapter on film adaptations of gawain and this sounds so soily and gorgeous
I’ve just been off down a little Tolkien Green Knight rabbit hole. There’s an audiobook of the lovely Terry Jones (yes, the one from Monty Python who went on to become a scholar of medieval history) reading Tolkien’s alliterative translation, if anyone fancies hearing it. Terry Jones studied Old English with Bruce Mitchell, who did his DPhil under Tolkien’s supervision in the 1950s. So you could view Terry Jones as a scholarly grandchild of Tolkien’s.
that’s so cool! I love tracing the connections down through who studied at oxford when to see who has a little tolkien in them. susan cooper wrote her undergraduate thesis supervised by him and i feel like you can see some of that in the dark is rising
Really interesting and enjoyable read, thanks. I'm with you on soil, which is one of the few things in nature whose conservation does not depend on value judgements and choices (cf deer/trees). It's also a palimpsest of natural forces since the last ice age, in the UK, and for aeons nearer the equator. And not to forget our natural place, it still feeds us. Go, the Green Knight!
It’s skipping forwards in the poem a bit, but Alan Garner’s latest book Powsels and Thrums, which I just finished, talks of his search for the site of the Green Knight’s mound. And he mentions elsewhere that when he first read Gawain he didn’t need to translate it, as the dialect was that of his childhood in Cheshire. Fascinating to think that the language lasted that long! There’s a link here in case you’re interested http://alangarner.atspace.org/times4.html
I also come from the North West of England (Lancashire/Cheshire borders) and we found Gawain much easier to understand at school than Chaucer. I don't think anyone ever told me why that was, but now I know!
This was such an interesting read - thank you for sharing! I studied this text very briefly at uni, so it’s lovely to revisit and spend a bit more time with it now - and fascinating to hear your insights too.
Not sure how I got here and have the barest most passing knowledge of this poem. I guess I'll have to go read Tolkiens translation now because you got me.
tolkien’s translation is so beautiful! it has a real high epic ritualistic feel to it, it’s definitely something you can imagine being sung in theoden’s hall, particularly how he does the alliteration and the drumming rhythm
I like your style of translation: trying to preserve the meaning and to respect the substance of the original Middle English. Theres another style which seeks more to recreate the rhyme and metric but it sacrifices the meaning and is even prone to freely inventing meaning that’s just not in the text if it sounds good.
Since you’re good at Middle English, you know it’s pretty much untranslatable, there’s too much lost and too much that can never come across. We aren’t just translating across different languages and cultures, but translating 500 years or more in the future. The charm of the Middle English is impossible to recreate. Some philologists like Gadamer said this about translating Plato’s Ancient Greek too.
Ive been translating Middle High German into English some and try to strike a balance btw the two styles. The most historically accurate translation is often too clunky to be very readable. Please check out my very first Substack post from yesterday, „What’s Pragmatic about Medieval Romance Literature“ in which I look at Gottfrieds of Straßburg Tristan and Isolde and translate a passage. I would be interested in your feedback.
Please do. You don’t need any Middle High German. I translated some verses into English in the post. I’m starting to work on a follow-up post too, further examining how Gottfried highlights the status of books during his time, also showing the international nature of the aristocracy then. How did Gottfried know Old French to borrow Chretien de Troyes story? He gives us clues.
Hi Emily! I just wanted to pop in and say that I am enjoying your writing SO MUCH- I am not sure how Substack recommended you to me as I am not a student of things medieval (although I sure loved the subject in high school!)- it’s just the magic of the internet, I guess. Thanks for educating me and showing me a whole other world! I will be staying tuned. -xo Sasha, a fringey rock musician and graphic designer living in a small Gold Rush town in rural Northern California
omg thank you that’s so exciting! I’m so glad you’re enjoying it. say hello to the small gold rush town in rural northern california for me! I doubt I’ve been anywhere near it but I did a road trip through northern california up to oregon with my parents when I was about 16 and it was so beautiful up there
This is a stunning post, I can’t wait to read all the other parts!!
I absolutely love this line: “I see the soil as a place that holds, changes, births, respools and restarts time.” The cycle of plants’ withering and rebirth is such a wonderful means of expressing the circularity of time in The Green Knight.
laughing when you lose!!! what a beautiful notion. I did my undergrad dissertation on this & a recent text, all on nation and local landscapes. wish I had read this at the time... you might be right here... it's a soil poem! I once read a fantastic book that said nation begins when we bury our dead. I was always looking for that way to articulate the link between nation and ecology- the land (Britain) we live in grows from the land (soil!) we stand on. from the very beginning, Britain is unstable, strange land. I like how your translation draws this out. Thank you for this!!!
Thank you so much for your completely fascinating insights. I made a stop motion film inspired by the Green Knight and it is all about the soil and I wish I had read your work so I could articulate why! I’ve just found you and so looking forward to more.
this is completely amazing and i would LOVE to see the film if it’s available anywhere I can? my phd is going to have a whole chapter on film adaptations of gawain and this sounds so soily and gorgeous
https://vimeo.com/952543730?share=copy
just watched this! it’s incredible, so haunting and so soily the music is so addictive too
Thanks so much!
I am so inspired by this heady mix of eco criticism, medieval studies and folk horror. All of the good things. Thank you so much!
I’ve just been off down a little Tolkien Green Knight rabbit hole. There’s an audiobook of the lovely Terry Jones (yes, the one from Monty Python who went on to become a scholar of medieval history) reading Tolkien’s alliterative translation, if anyone fancies hearing it. Terry Jones studied Old English with Bruce Mitchell, who did his DPhil under Tolkien’s supervision in the 1950s. So you could view Terry Jones as a scholarly grandchild of Tolkien’s.
that’s so cool! I love tracing the connections down through who studied at oxford when to see who has a little tolkien in them. susan cooper wrote her undergraduate thesis supervised by him and i feel like you can see some of that in the dark is rising
Really interesting and enjoyable read, thanks. I'm with you on soil, which is one of the few things in nature whose conservation does not depend on value judgements and choices (cf deer/trees). It's also a palimpsest of natural forces since the last ice age, in the UK, and for aeons nearer the equator. And not to forget our natural place, it still feeds us. Go, the Green Knight!
the older i get the more i’m just wonderstruck and obsessed with soil
It’s skipping forwards in the poem a bit, but Alan Garner’s latest book Powsels and Thrums, which I just finished, talks of his search for the site of the Green Knight’s mound. And he mentions elsewhere that when he first read Gawain he didn’t need to translate it, as the dialect was that of his childhood in Cheshire. Fascinating to think that the language lasted that long! There’s a link here in case you’re interested http://alangarner.atspace.org/times4.html
I also come from the North West of England (Lancashire/Cheshire borders) and we found Gawain much easier to understand at school than Chaucer. I don't think anyone ever told me why that was, but now I know!
So interesting! I’d be curious to know whether that would still be the case with schools today or whether the dialect has been diluted down now.
The depiction of the Green Knight reminds of the "Green Man" as depicted in the Celtic mythos, and neo-Celtic Paganism.
This was such an interesting read - thank you for sharing! I studied this text very briefly at uni, so it’s lovely to revisit and spend a bit more time with it now - and fascinating to hear your insights too.
i’m so glad you enjoyed it! it’s such a beautiful poem
Not sure how I got here and have the barest most passing knowledge of this poem. I guess I'll have to go read Tolkiens translation now because you got me.
tolkien’s translation is so beautiful! it has a real high epic ritualistic feel to it, it’s definitely something you can imagine being sung in theoden’s hall, particularly how he does the alliteration and the drumming rhythm
so so excited to read this!! saving it for when my midterms are over 😓
Mid terms are temporary but the soil is forever
saying this to myself like a mantra
Loving this!
SO EXCITED FOR THIS!!!!
I like your style of translation: trying to preserve the meaning and to respect the substance of the original Middle English. Theres another style which seeks more to recreate the rhyme and metric but it sacrifices the meaning and is even prone to freely inventing meaning that’s just not in the text if it sounds good.
Since you’re good at Middle English, you know it’s pretty much untranslatable, there’s too much lost and too much that can never come across. We aren’t just translating across different languages and cultures, but translating 500 years or more in the future. The charm of the Middle English is impossible to recreate. Some philologists like Gadamer said this about translating Plato’s Ancient Greek too.
Ive been translating Middle High German into English some and try to strike a balance btw the two styles. The most historically accurate translation is often too clunky to be very readable. Please check out my very first Substack post from yesterday, „What’s Pragmatic about Medieval Romance Literature“ in which I look at Gottfrieds of Straßburg Tristan and Isolde and translate a passage. I would be interested in your feedback.
I’d be very happy to take a look though I can’t claim I know anything much about middle high german!
Please do. You don’t need any Middle High German. I translated some verses into English in the post. I’m starting to work on a follow-up post too, further examining how Gottfried highlights the status of books during his time, also showing the international nature of the aristocracy then. How did Gottfried know Old French to borrow Chretien de Troyes story? He gives us clues.
Hi Emily! I just wanted to pop in and say that I am enjoying your writing SO MUCH- I am not sure how Substack recommended you to me as I am not a student of things medieval (although I sure loved the subject in high school!)- it’s just the magic of the internet, I guess. Thanks for educating me and showing me a whole other world! I will be staying tuned. -xo Sasha, a fringey rock musician and graphic designer living in a small Gold Rush town in rural Northern California
omg thank you that’s so exciting! I’m so glad you’re enjoying it. say hello to the small gold rush town in rural northern california for me! I doubt I’ve been anywhere near it but I did a road trip through northern california up to oregon with my parents when I was about 16 and it was so beautiful up there
"Because they lost the game" did psychic damage to me
This is a stunning post, I can’t wait to read all the other parts!!
I absolutely love this line: “I see the soil as a place that holds, changes, births, respools and restarts time.” The cycle of plants’ withering and rebirth is such a wonderful means of expressing the circularity of time in The Green Knight.
laughing when you lose!!! what a beautiful notion. I did my undergrad dissertation on this & a recent text, all on nation and local landscapes. wish I had read this at the time... you might be right here... it's a soil poem! I once read a fantastic book that said nation begins when we bury our dead. I was always looking for that way to articulate the link between nation and ecology- the land (Britain) we live in grows from the land (soil!) we stand on. from the very beginning, Britain is unstable, strange land. I like how your translation draws this out. Thank you for this!!!